Voice #4 - Adam: "From Shame to Strength: What Allah's Mercy Taught Me About Being a Man"

In this deeply moving episode, Adam shares his journey through the confusing terrain of same-sex attraction as a Muslim man from Egypt. With remarkable vulnerability, he reveals how complicated family dynamics – a domineering mother and emotionally distant father – created the perfect storm for his internal struggles with identity and sexuality.

Adam's story isn't just about attraction; it's about the profound human need for connection. Through tears and triumphs, he describes how childhood wounds manifested as attractions that were less about sex and more about seeking the masculine affirmation and fatherly embrace he never received. "I learned that I just want to bond with men," he explains. "I want this healthy, golden fatherly hug."

The turning point came after Egyptian activist Sarah Hegazi's suicide in 2020, which propelled Adam into a spiritual crisis that ultimately led to healing. Through support groups, therapeutic approaches, and reconnecting with Allah, he began to unravel the complex "triangle of fusion" behind his attractions – discovering they contained elements of his mother, his wounded younger self, and the father figure he desperately needed.

Today, Adam experiences his masculinity differently. While still navigating occasional same-sex attractions, he's found peace by understanding their roots and addressing his deeper needs for healthy connection. His journey offers hope that healing is possible without denying one's experiences or abandoning faith and one's relationship with Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala.

Resources mentioned in the episode:
- Sh. Fadel Soliman's video addressing homosexuality, and his series on Allah's Divine Names
- Shame and Attachment Loss by Dr. Joseph Nicolosi
- Three books by Richard Cohen: Coming Out Straight; Being Gay: Nature or Nurture; and Healing Humanity: Time, Touch & Talk
- How to Do the Work by Dr. Nicole LePera
- Secrets of Divine Love by A. Helwa
- Breaking the Habit of Yourself by Dr. Joe Dispenza
- Strong Support official website
- Journey into Manhood (JiM) - Brothers Road official website
- Brothers Road clearance exercise (MANS principle for reframing SSA)

Chapters

• 3:46 Opening remarks
• 7:01 Early beginnings and family dynamics
• 34:09 Body image wounds
• 45:06 The boiling point
• 1:12:28 The healing path
• 1:35:51 Reframing SSA
• 1:55:24 The present and the future
• 2:14:11 Key messages
• 2:21:43 What would you tell them if you had the chance?
• 2:28:23 Ending remarks

Transcript

Waheed: 3:47

Assalamu alaikom warahmatullahi wabarakatuh, and welcome to a new episode of Voices from Beyond the Rainbow.I'm your host, Waheed Jensen, and thank you for joining me in today's episode. My guest today is Brother Adam, who is joining us all the way from Egypt to share with us his story. We talk about complicated family dynamics, unhealthy coping mechanisms, shame, pain, and confusion. We also talk about healing and recovery, connection, masculinity, and overcoming many pains from the past to pave the way for a better version of ourselves as we strive on the path towards Allah SWT. Adam has a lot of gems to share with us today and I cannot wait for you to listen to today's episode. 

But before we start, this episode has been flagged for explicit content, since we discussed sensitive topics like male anatomy and genitalia, and a general trigger warning, given that the episode also tackles subjects like physical abuse, bullying, and pornography addiction. 

Waheed: 5:00

Assalamu alaikom brother Adam.

Adam: 5:02

Wa alaikom assalam.

Waheed: 5:03

How are you doing today?

Adam: 5:04

I'm doing well, actually. Thank you for asking. Also, I have to admit that I'm a bit nervous, but it's okay, I believe.

Waheed: 5:11

That's absolutely normal. I cannot wait for people to listen to the wonderful gems that you have to share with us today. MashaAllah, you and I have been talking for the past couple of weeks and months to discuss a lot of the themes that you wanted to share with us and, mashaAllah, I am very, very moved and excited about what you have to share with us today, because I feel that so much beauty and so many wonderful lessons are going to come out today, and I hope that everyone will benefit, inshaAllah. So, before we get into that, I would like to ask you, if you don't mind to tell us a little bit about yourself.

Adam: 5:53

Yeah, sure, I am a 37 year-old Muslim man from Egypt. I experience same-sex attraction (SSA) with, like I would say, minor, or let me say like fluctuating, opposite-sex attraction (OSA). Also, to be honest with you, like the new version of me today would say differently, I would say, like I'm a man who discovered that he has deep unhealed wounds, and that SSA emerged as a symptom of those wounds. I'm trying to break some habit of myself, but we will touch upon this later. So, yeah, I would say that I'm a man among men. I feel equal now, alhamdulillah, to them, and those attractions, like they might be like more of admiration, not only sexual attraction.

But yes, of course, I experience SSA with minor OSA. Also something to add here that I kept it secret, until I turned 30, I've never, never been in a sexual relationship with a man or a woman.

Waheed: 7:01

Well, thank you for that. Thank you for sharing that. So, you would like to tell us your story in a very chronological order, so let us go back and let me ask you this: Can you tell us a little bit about how you first started to discover SSA and how you experienced that growing up.

Adam: 7:27

I believe I first started noticing my SSA when I was 10 years-old. Actually it was more of confusion. It wasn't that clear or complete SSA back then. I remember that there were early signs, maybe like strange, unsettling dreams about naked men. Sometimes vivid and weird dreams of women with male genitals. So I didn't understand back then what that meant at this time. And it was so disturbing. Also something to add here that what was even more confusing, as far as I remember that my first sexual feelings during early puberty were actually toward girls, but even that wasn't that straightforward. That attraction to girls was fluctuating at the same time. It wasn't strong and not directed towards all girls, and even when it showed up, something about it felt off, or disconnected. So yeah, it didn't feel like whole or fully natural, somehow, like there was a missing piece.

Then later on, I would say, eventually, this SSA was gradually formed, and it was really like very strong and intense attractions toward men. This is still something, honestly, I find hard to talk about, even now. Those words don't come out easily, since I've carried the shame around this part of my story for so long, but I believe like healing all those thoughts, we're speaking right, so that's why yeah.

Waheed: 9:18

Yes and thank you for your bravery. It takes a lot of courage for you to do this, and we all appreciate it.

Adam: 9:22

Thank you so much. Back to my SSA, yes, so eventually it was formed, and I admit that those attractions were really strong and intense. I would say that my SSA was unique or niche somehow. I wasn't attracted to this stereotypical, good-looking masculine men, that are idealized in movies or in porn or even in the ads, everywhere. Not at all. No, actually, my attraction was more specific and niche, men who were strong, masculine, yes, but at the same time they are soft, curvy and — mind my words please — slightly chubby or even stocky.

Actually, it made things feel even worse, I have to be honest with you, because it wasn't just the minority. I felt like I was minority within a minority. So it made me feel even extra isolated. Because even in the movies, even everywhere, when they mention the word “gays” (actually I don't like this word, but I mention it now for this purpose), they don't actually promote for this type of attraction, like even in the movies when they touch upon this topic, like the “gays” should be in some certain setups, some certain body types.

Waheed: 11:03

They have a quite an attractive physique. They're very muscular, they're very well built.

Adam: 11:07

Exactly. So that's why, actually, I was even more confused and I felt extra isolated. Later we will touch upon this- this insight actually helped me, like in my healing journey, because it felt like a puzzle, and actually I will speak more about this puzzle during this podcast. But yeah, actually it felt like why this man and why not this man? Somehow I was alternating between two states. I spent years actually swinging between those two states. The first one was like denial. I was trying to push the feelings down, somehow acting as if they didn't exist at all like hoping that they would disappear.

Waheed: 11:58

And how old were you at the time? Around 10 years old?

Adam: 12:03

A little bit older.

Waheed: 12:04

Okay, so a teenager basically.

Adam: 12:05

A teenager, exactly, and the second state was like doubt. Really, I kept asking myself, “Was I born this way? Am I meant to be gay?” Of course, when I was reading Qur’an, I came across a Qawm Lut, the people of Prophet Lut (AS). And it was the classic question, “If Allah hated the people of Prophet Lut (AS), why would he create me like this?” May Allah forgive me saying this. Of course, I knew the answer to this later, but I'm just sharing with you how did I feel back at this moment. And, this thought alone, that Allah hates me, caused me so much inner pain and confusion. It felt like a contradiction I couldn't solve.

Waheed: 12:57

SubhanAllah. I mean a lot of us would identify with that as either children, teenagers, early adults growing up and feeling that confusion particularly. This is very common territory. So you wanted to also take us into your family dynamics. You wanted to talk about how it was for you growing up with your mother, your father, your siblings at home. So what can you tell us about that?

Adam: 13:21

A lot. Actually, I can tell you a lot about this. Basically, I grew up in a household dominated by my very loving, my very affectionate mom, warm mom. She took control of most aspects of family life, including finances and decisions. She managed the house well, so well I admit. Also, I would say in terms of pushing us forward, she did that very well to increase our social status as well. We all feel that we owe her that. Also, she was so keen we always get the high grades in our school and classes. I admit that I had a very strong bond with her. On the other hand, she was very shaming, controlling, volatile as well, and a punisher, like a real punisher, a real, a real punisher. Like she used to beat us with tools.

And speaking of my dad, my dad actually was kind, quiet, he was emotionally distant and passive, but he was this kind of Sufi guy. He was deeply devoted to teaching us how to love Allah, wallahi, and he taught us about Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Yet he also struggled with human interactions. He couldn't stop mom from many things. My mom was controlling. Actually, she even pushed us to cut ties with my dad's family. May Allah forgive me for saying this, that I always found my dad like a poor role model of masculinity, let me put this way.

Waheed: 15:18

So just to kind of summarize for us to understand, so basically your father was the more kind of timid, the weaker party between the two, and then your mother had to step up and take control of the household, so to speak. So she was there pushing everyone to do their best, but she was also kind of the overbearing, overprotective, kind of controlling party in this model, in this household, correct?

Adam: 15:44

Exactly. Correct. Hundred percent.

Waheed: 15:47

Okay, yeah, subhanAllah. This is quite common. I've heard it from a lot of a lot of men and even women who experience SSA or gender dysphoria. They tell me, like either the father is like very controlling, very abusive, or loud, or narcissistic, and the mother is kind of the more timid one, or it's the opposite, so the father is actually, weak and obviously the woman has to kind of step in, to kind of take over. But sometimes she does it, she overdoes it, and that's how, either way there's an imbalance.

Adam: 16:25

Exactly, and it's funny because the big percentage goes to this case you mentioned, Waheed, where the dad is very controlling and very shaming. For example, in my weekly circle, we do some very funny exercise, that “Hey guys, raise a hand if you feel safe with your mom!” You see that the majority of the circle raise their hands and I'm like “No, no way!” So it's very funny, but I totally agree with you. You can see either this (case) or that (case).

Waheed: 16:55

Yeah, so you wanted to also tell us a little bit about some memories or events — as you were embarking on your healing journey and you were looking back, you were like, “Oh, this makes sense, this was part of me growing up, and now I understand where this came from or how it contributed to my own kind of shame or same-sex attractions” or all of that, and you wanted to give us examples, so would you like to share them?

Adam: 17:22

Oh, yeah, sure. First of all, let me also mention my siblings. I have a sister who's one younger than me, because, of course, mentioning my siblings will contribute to this. What's going to happen shortly. Also, I have a brother who's eight years younger. Also, not to mention that I always felt like I was their protector. I am the parentified kid. I was so responsible for many things, and even till this moment, I love them so much and I really care for them. They are like my kids. Somehow I feel accountable for them, subhanAllah. Yeah, so away from this, alongside this parentified kid, I was placed in the role of the “substitute spouse” for my mom.

Waheed: 18:16

So that you need to explain to the listeners. What does that mean and how did it look like?

Adam: 18:18

Yes, it all started that my mom — by the way, my mom didn't have any friends, and she always said that I am her friend. She used to complain a lot about my dad. I always received the message that I shouldn't grow up to be like him. I should grow up actually to be a different man than him, more stronger, more macho. And believe me she highlighted or she said many crazy stuff like, for example, she often criticized my dad in front of us very hard. She even insulted him so bad in their fights.

Waheed: 18:55

He never stood up for himself, he never fought back?

Adam: 19:03

Actually, Waheed, this is a very good question because, believe me, sometimes, when my dad decides just to stand up for himself, instead of being passive, she would suddenly pretend to pass out, acting like she was about to die. And to be honest, even now, I can feel how this kid, my younger self, felt the fear and terror in those moments. I really begged them and I was so desperate to make peace between them. They fought a lot, and always my dad decides to give up, but when he decides to stand up, this happens. Somehow this is kind of like emotional manipulation.

And also, Waheed, You will see that, in my story, you will sense how I'm always confused because of my mom, like I really love her, at the same time (I don't want to say the word, but) a part of me hates her. So it's very confusing, and actually this contributed to my SSA, of course, that's why I'm mentioning this. And subhanAllah, let me say a word, I was doing some activity in my healing journey down the road, and I was asked, “What words would describe your mom?” and then they listed me a lot of words, and actually the only one that resonated with me was “goddess”.

So, yeah, I just wanted to give you this clue, because actually this will help you understand what I'm going to share. Back to this “substitute spouse”, it wasn't only this. It was that she always highlighted she deserved a better man than my dad. M apology to say this, but let me take it out of my chest as well, actually I learned from her (I'm just giving you a picture of what kind of words she's telling a kid) that my dad is not good sexually, for example. Of course, like this is something that really I would like to unhear, to undo.

Waheed: 21:37

Yes. Like no child should ever be exposed to any of this knowledge, honestly, like whatever happens in confidence in the bedroom between the spouses should never be disclosed to the kids, whether it's a good thing or a bad thing. I think that this is way beyond anything that a child or a teenager could process. There is a term I think that they use in psychology, it’s called “emotional incest”. It's like when the parent and the child, there is lack of boundaries, to the point that the parent actually shares a lot of intimate details with the child, and the child is just very confused, like “Why are you telling me this? What am I supposed to do with this?” And this is quite tough to handle. So the fact that this was shared with you, I mean, I can imagine. What was your reaction when you heard that?

Adam: 22:24

Before I answer your question, thank you for sharing this word, this term, somehow it resonated with me like 100%, really, subhanAllah. And regarding your question, of course, I was really confused because, believe me, I will tell you something that somehow I felt like emotionally married to my mom. On the other hand, a part of me wanted to please her, because she was suffering, bbviously, another part in me felt so sorry for my dad, really so sorry. Actually, even at this moment, I really somehow forgive my dad, I really love him, and when we speak about the healing work, you will realize that the work that I did toward my dad, it wasn't that much. The majority of work I really did was around my mother wound.

Waheed: 23:25

Yeah to kind of heal from the mother wound which is quite strong in your case.

Adam: 23:34

Exactly, yeah. I would like to share a memory. It will show you how crazy it was. Yes, of course, like, my mom was very affectionate, like I don't forget her kisses, her hugs, how she urged us to be perfect.

Actually, I remember an extreme incident that one day she even ordered dad to hold my sister to burn her hands. She heated like a spoon on the burner, she burned my sister's right hand because my sister made a mistake — regardless of the  mistake, I will not even mention it — but of course this is crazy. And actually every time I mention this, I feel so angry. Also I remember how I felt so helpless and weak, and my sister screamed, and also my mom believed that this punishment was for her sake, so that she can leave a scar, so that she (my sister) can remember this and not to never do this again.

Waheed: 25:01

So basically she was trying to punish her by using physical abuse, and not just like hitting, but actually burning her with a burning spoon, so that she wouldn't do that thing again. So, basically traumatizing her to a very extreme extent as a form of punishment, which is downright abuse. SubhanAllah, I'm sorry to hear that.

Adam: 25:04

Exactly. Yeah, thank you. Actually, I'm so sorry too. I will not lie to you. Even every time I remember such a story, I feel so angry, even if I told it, like now, many times in my healing journey. But yeah, actually it's something unbelievable. Also, answering your question, what other memories or events I would add here that contribute? Many things that it's not easy to share, but I felt like I live in constant fear, again, mixed with strong attachment and loving her, because this is also one of the clues.

Waheed: 25:46

Just to kind of orient us. You are kind of fluctuating between this place of: you love her, you are attached to her as your kind of caregiver, that maternal figure, but you also are very afraid of her, and you harbor some anger and pain from her. So it's kind of very confusing. I can imagine how living in that kind of constant switching from one mental state to another is very confusing and very painful, subhan Allah.

Adam: 26:17

Exactly, Waheed, you said it so well, and actually she was the only source of love in my life. What you said is exactly right. And actually, you know what, it's funny. That's why people keep telling me that I have the ability to read the room even now,  because when I was a kid, I learned how to do that, I developed a skill on how to read my mom's face somehow. Is she angry? Is she going to punish me, or she's gonna hug me? It's dark and it's funny somehow.

Waheed: 26:48

Thank you for actually sharing that, because a lot of empaths, what I've discovered, is that they develop this, a heightened sense of awareness. It could be a gift, but it could also be an adaptive mechanism or an adaptation strategy growing up, because they needed to attune to the most difficult person in the room or the one that is more likely to kind of harm them. So they have this kind of, they develop this kind of sixth sense or like this added awareness that, okay, whoever is in the in the room, if there are like 10 people, I'm going to gravitate to the one that is “most dangerous”, because I need to be able to protect myself. So they are able, or we as empaths, for a large proportion of us, we are kind of able to read other people's energies, because we've been accustomed to it for a very long time growing up, subhanAllah.

Adam: 27:45

Oh yeah, you said it so well, exactly, yeah. Also something I remembered now, also regarding the crazy things she did. Something to do with shaming my masculinity. I remember once, like she was showering me when I was a young child, and I remember that accidentally I got a boner. Sorry for my words. She shamed me severely, and I remember that she said “What is this disgusting thing?” So, actually, this is one of the many similar moments, that somehow I have always felt terrified and ashamed of my masculinity around her. This is something else, I believe, that well contributes to our topic here, right?

Waheed: 28:31

Yeah, subhanAllah.

Adam: 28:33

A final thing to add here that, as a coping mechanism, or somehow, I remember, after those punishment rounds, I felt that I was repressing my anger. And I even remember that, as an act of revenge, I was masturbating since a very young age, believe me, like I don't even remember when and, sorry to say this, I remember back in those days, actually I wasn't even producing semen yet, but actually I was doing it like taking revenge. Actually I was taking revenge of myself, or maybe taking revenge of her through myself, something like this.

Waheed: 29:17

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You're trying to kind of get back at her for shaming you, so you're just kind of trying to prove yourself for yourself, even before, you were pre-pubescent, you didn't even hit puberty yet, and that was taking place which is understandable, I mean with all of that confusion, it tends to happen quite often. 

So just to kind of summarize, what we understand now from you is that there is a very kind of a very active and vivid disequilibrium at home, where the mother is the strong figure at home, the one who is taking care of everyone, making sure that the house is running, but also the one who's overbearing, overprotective, kind of domineering, and the father is quite the weak figure and he's not able to stand up for her. There's a lot of manipulation happening, a lot of chaos at home, a lot of shaming to you and to your siblings. So that's a very chaotic household, subhanAllah. 

But just before we move on, I just wanted to ask you, how was your relationship with your father? So we understand that he was weak, but when you were with him, was he able to give you some attention and love, or was he completely like emotionally absent altogether? How was it with him?

Adam: 30:27

Very good question, actually.You will be surprised if I told you that my dad was very affectionate, but in his own way, like my dad actually can cook for me — really till this moment. It's very interesting, because actually he loves to do this. And when I tell him, “Dad, please, I can do my own stuff!” You can see that he's annoyed.

Waheed: 30:52

He wants to show love through cooking and being of service.

Adam: 30:55

Exactly, Waheed. Like cooking, preparing some dessert. Also, okay, so let me share this as well, since you asked such a question. Now I can proudly say that my dad is cooking for me. My dad, he loves to prepare stuff for me and for my brother as well, my sister. But in the past, I was so ashamed of this. I was hiding this from my peers, because somehow peers can make fun of you, if you said that my dad is cooking and my mom is controlling the finance, for example, they will make fun of me. So actually it was part of my shame, somehow, part of the things that I've hid for long years .

Waheed: 31:50

So he showed you love in ways that he was able to, but was he also kind of vocal in terms of his love, did he tell you like “I love you”? Did he give you hugs or healthy touch?

Adam: 32:03

No, zero hugs, zero “I love you”. Zero touch. Nothing. Actually, even till this moment, like when I travel back home, I find it like a good chance and opportunity to hug him. Actually he does it like in a very, I don't know, like I don't also want to use words like what he, as if, like he doesn't want to hug me. So, subhanAllah, he has his own way. Even when I text him, I sometimes, on purpose, I send him a heart. He doesn't reply back with hearts.

Waheed: 32:46

I see. This is a very common thing as well, the fathers who are kind of emotionally absent. They're not able to show emotion, not because they don't want to — well, maybe some of them don't want to — but for a lot of them, it's because they don't know how, and it makes them feel uncomfortable, because they themselves are dealing with their own issues from their own childhoods, and you can find that they are themselves traumatized and they are still dealing with emotions, and difficult emotions is something that they don't know how to deal with. So they choose to shut it out completely and, wallahu a'alam (God knows best), I mean this is how I read the situation with your father. He didn't get that. 

And I think maybe part of this is the irony that, sometimes, the kids are the source of healing for the parents. So maybe just by you being kind of active and proactive in emphasizing love and emphasizing emotion in your father's life now as you're an adult, maybe that would be the kind of the seeds that would change things in him. Or maybe not, but at least, like you can see where these dynamics are coming from.

Adam: 33:55

Yeah, totally agree, Waheed, totally agree.

Waheed: 34:09

One of the themes that you wanted to also share with us is with regards to body image wounds. A lot of men who experience same-sex attractions and gender dysphoria they recall having body image wounds growing up, shame surrounding their bodies, not being happy with their bodies, feeling disgusted with their bodies or alienated from them. To what extent did that apply to you? What can you tell us about that?

Adam: 34:33

Okay, yeah, it strongly applies here in my case as well. So, briefly, let me say this again: I alternated between two states — deep shame and admiration, or maybe narcissism, if it's the correct word.

Okay, also, later on I will use another term, they call it “narcissistic injury”, with regards to the body, but yeah it's somehow like it was a mix between body image shame and admiration. I remember how people praised me, when I was a kid, like for being like a good looking kid. Also, I used to have a soft, curvy body.

I remember how my peers bullied me also for looking like a pretty girl. They often mocked my round thighs, my backside, and what they called “moobs”.

Waheed: 35:41

“Moobs” as in man boobs, is that what they meant?

Adam: 35:54

Year, exactly. Even now when I'm telling you this, I remember some vivid scenes. I remember how I was doing my best to hide my body with my clothes in the school, especially my backside, to avoid bullying. Also, being a late bloomer made it worse. Actually, to be honest, I'm not so sure if I was a real late bloomer or it was just like pressure for my peers and my mom as well, because my mom shamed me a lot, like she was like “I wonder when I will finally see a beard on you!” Like this was how my mom used to speak about it. Let me put it also this way, being a late bloomer made it worse. While other peers developed body hair, beards, and more masculine features, I stayed like this cute, small, curvy boy. I felt so ashamed of this, like deep shame.

Regarding the admiration, and also this is so difficult to admit that, despite all of this body shame I endured as a child, I also secretly — and on purpose I'm using the word secretly — I secretly developed a strange sense of admiration for my own body. It was like some traits in my body like I was ashamed of and some traits I was admiring somehow. Again, I will use this word like a “narcissistic injury”, and later I will tell you more details about it. Somehow, I developed this admiration not to my genitals or upper body, but actually to my curvy lower body, somehow. Sometimes, actually, as a kid, I felt like sexually aroused, just looking in the mirror. Again, it's not easy, believe me, saying this, but actually, it's part of my journey to speak about it.

Waheed: 38:05

And, by the way, thank you for sharing that, and this is just to highlight that this is a very common thing. It's not just you, Yeah, yeah, of course, I mean a lot of boys growing up, I've heard it from so many people, so I think there is something to that. And maybe we'll get to it later, inshaAllah.

Adam: 38:22

Oh, thank you for saying this. So, yeah, it was like a confusing mix of self-consciousness and fascination, and this left me torn between shame and something else, like pride. Actually, sometimes, I wondered if maybe I was meant to be a girl. Yet I was so sure that I'm not a girl. Maybe because I lacked the identification with my dad, somehow, like there was no one who reassured me or told me like “Hey, you're good, you're normal, you're a man”. Somehow I was stuck, or my mind created this “secret gender”, let me put it this way. Like, I know that I'm not a girl, but at the same time, I don't belong to this cruel community of men. So, somehow, my mind created this “secret gender”, and somehow that's why I was feeling this arousal. It was like a safe refuge. 

And you know what, Waheed, it’s very funny that I also really learned recently that our body image shame when we were kids has nothing to do with your body. Like, for example, when I finally hit adolescence, my body started changing, and actually. I started to hit the gym, I started to build muscles, and actually I completely transformed my physique. But still, I still carried the shame inside of me. I kept feeling ashamed of my genitals. I had this false belief that I didn't somehow grow, this false belief that I'm not a man enough. And this doubt never really went away and made me feel very inferior and anxious about my masculinity. Actually, even I kept receiving compliments from people like, “Hey, you have a strong body” like in the gym, still, this old insecurity never fully went away easily. Yeah, this is something I wanted to add as well.

Waheed: 40:48

Yeah, which is understandable, I mean, given what you shared with us about growing up, any sign of masculinity that you wanted to show personally was shamed, and the person who was supposed to embody masculinity in your life was also not able to do that. So, growing up, and even if you're going to the gym and doing weightlifting and building muscles and transforming your physique and all of that, there's always that kind of sense of shame, that sense of insecurity deep down, because there was that original wound from childhood. So that's completely understandable, subhanAllah.

Adam: 41:26

Also this gender inferiority pushed me always to be curious. To search how men look like, then I stumbled upon the “grower vs. shower” categories of men. I'm talking about genitals, like I discovered that there are different categories of men. This is one of the pieces of my shame that I really carried inside of me, because I didn't know that men could be different., like there are “grower men” and “shower men”, and actually I was categorized as a “shower”. So it's something that I'm saying in a very brave way, because actually I always felt like so ashamed of this as well. Recently, I actually discovered that it's normal. Rhat's it. This is what I wanted to add.

Waheed: 42:33

That's great. Well, thank you for sharing that, but can you elaborate, because a lot of the listeners are not familiar with the terminology? So what does “grower” mean and what does “shower” mean?

Adam: 42:50

“Shower” means that the penis size doubles or even triples when it gets erect. “Grower” doesn’t, he might keep the same size or maybe a little bit longer, but in the flaccid states, it keeps its length.

Waheed: 43:09

So it remains the same size, so to speak.

Adam: 43:11

Exactly, yes. So that’s why, speaking about this kid, the younger self, so he wasn't aware of all of this. I remember, one day, I was searching and surfing the internet, I was curious to see, and I remember that I first - even before porn – the first thing I entered (while searching) was “naked pictures of men”. Actually it’s another evidence that t's not only about porn, it's about gender inferiority, it's about curiosity. And then I stumbled upon pictures of men, of course, like some of them are “growers”, and actually it increased my insecurity, like, “Oh my God!” It reinforced the false belief that I'm still like, I didn't grow yet, you understand, like I'm still like a late bloomer, or maybe I got stuck in some state which is not correct. It was only a false belief. This is important to add, because sometimes landing at the wrong source of knowledge at the wrong time — of course, knowledge is good, but, like receiving knowledge — but if it's not at a good timing, that’s a problem.

Waheed: 44:40

And the wrong resources as well. When you don't have any guidance or mentorship and you have to figure things out on your own, obviously, especially during this time and age, you're more likely to end up on the wrong side of the internet.

Adam: 44:53

Exactly, Waheed, exactly.

Waheed: 45:06

While you were telling me more about your story, you decided to talk about something called the “boiling point” in your life. So can you tell us about that period? How did that come about? What happened during that phase? What happened afterwards?

Adam: 45:26

Yeah, sure, before my boiling point, Waheed, like I mentioned before, I was living two different lives. On the outside, I was doing so well, so well, like I was successful in college, and even later at work. But inside, I was deeply depressed, I felt lost, angry, and confused. Actually, I kept thinking that I would end up alone, ugly, weak, old. The only thing that I was sure about was my fear of Allah. And actually this is what stopped me from making bad choices, because actually I was put in a couple of situations where I had the chance to make bad choices, but this fear of Allah stopped me.

And, actually, I will speak more about this fear of Allah, because later on, it morphed into like love of Allah. Of course, again, I would like to mention, Waheed, that all of those findings and healing work is because of Allah, thanks to Allah. Allah incepted the ideas into my head. I don't want to take credit, you understand. I just begged Allah, and I asked Allah to help me, and, wallahi, things started to unfold, subhaAllah, in a very beautiful way. Even like those choices, bad choices, like even I mean this fear is what stopped me from making bad choices. It was only Allah. Allah was protecting me from having sexual relationships with people, alhamdulillah.

So back to your question, it’s a very, very important thing, that I was so confused, and actually I was so stressed, to a degree that my body started to react with terrible allergies, like terrible, like it was punishing me for ignoring those feelings somehow. So, yes, and during this period, I consumed pornagraphy in a very heavy way, and it became my only source of happiness. Also, I even subscribed to many paid premium porn websites. Actually, those websites provided this specific taste of men that I was after. It became like a vicious cycle, like I watch porn, and then I masturbate, and then I feel overwhelmed, I feel the disgust, and then I feel shame, guilt, and then depressed, very sad, and then, as a coping mechanism, porn, etc. It's like a loop. 

And, I remember, every time, by the end of those loops, I cry and cry, and then again, I keep repeating the same behavior. And yes, like I told you before, that it's funny that, even before starting porn, actually I didn't want to watch porn. The first thing I remember typing was like “naked men”. And actually, the funny thing, I typed “naked chubby men”. But over time the search became more refined, until I eventually stumbled upon those porn sites. And another strange aspect, and I will use it as a clue, during the porn, I didn't even enjoy watching the intercourse itself. It's weird, sometimes, like I feel, like I don't want to watch. And actually it's not weird, actually it's the opposite of weird, because this is against our innate (predsposition).

Waheed: 49:39

Against our fitrah. Here you are referring to male-male intercourse.

Adam: 49:46

Correct, exactly, it's against our fitrah. So I wasn't enjoying those scenes, yet I was enjoying those scenes of naked men. Also something else, let me highlight. That actually I was enjoying them while they were not having erections. I discovered that it was a sign of healing, not a sign that I'm really attracted to men, or that I have to lead the gay life, because something had to do with that state, maybe comparing it to myself, or something, you understand what I mean, right?

Waheed: 50:26

Somehow, but I'm sure we'll get to it, inshaAllah. But, basically, what you're trying to say is that you weren't necessarily fascinated by the idea of intercourse, or by the idea of like sexual prowess that those men have shown, but rather maybe just kind of appreciating their physique, so to speak, without having necessarily to enjoy the sexual act that happens between them. exactly,

Adam: 50:55

Exactly, 100%. Actually, I was enjoying their physique even when they were not aroused, right?

Waheed: 51:04

Well, how do you explain that now, now that you know everything that you know?

Adam: 51:08

Of course, believe me, it's like a very complicated puzzle. Okay, I can just say like one hint, and then we can speak about it in details, but as a hint, I had the shame of my body and my genitals and this “grower” thing. Also something else, Waheed, that I didn't share with you before, but I remember it now, one of the craziest things my mom did. I remember that my mom used to make fun of men. I remember those scenes like my mom and my aunt, they were sitting, subhanAllah, I didn't share this with you, but now doing this work made me remember this. My mom and my aunt, somehow, like they were making fun of men who have like flaccid, short penises, or this turtle effect. Like when men are cold, sometimes their genitals shrink. So don't ask me why or when, I don't even remember, but somehow there's a false belief, and I'm sure that it's only about the immaturity of my mom, but somehow there's an idea planted in my head that it’s so shameful if a man like has this turtle effect, those shrunken genitals. 

That's why it also justifies why I was enjoying watching men in porn, just enjoying their physique, and I wasn't looking at the erection. Why? Because actually I was so reassured about my erection. Let me put it this way, because, yeah, I did this childish measurement. Like I measured myself as a kid. And then, I was reassured that I'm like around the average or maybe above the average, you understand. But this shame about flaccid penises, somehow it was like a deep pain. Also, not to mention, Waheed, that we will touch upon this more. Somehow, this “secret gender” I mentioned, I told you that, when I was a kid, like, I had this soft, curvy body, but at the same time I embodied masculinity as well. I knew that I wasn’t girl, yet I didn't know that I'm a man. So my mind created this “secret gender”. So those men in porn, they belong to this “secret gender”. Why? Because they embodied the masculinity, they are strong, but at the same time, they are soft, they are curvy. They were like anxiety reducing to me.

Waheed: 54:26

They were basically everything you were looking for. The had a kind of strength, and they were also curvy, and they were giving you the reassurance that you were looking for from a man that you found every quality that you were also kind of searching for. SubhanAllah. It's understandable. Yeah, now it makes sense. It makes perfect sense.

Adam: 54:49

Exactly. Yeah, thank you, Waheed. I know that you asked for the boiling point, but I was like telling you what was happening before the boiling point. But let me tell you that I reached my limit just before my boiling point, and I even decided to see a therapist. And it was the first time ever in my life to speak with someone about my SSA. And, actually, that added insult to the injury. His reaction was shock, he was disgusted, and I remember his words, he told me that, “Hey, you need to read Qur’an more, and you need to get closer to Allah”. Wallahi, I felt so broken at this moment.

Waheed: 55:35

But this is a therapist. This is not a shaykh, he's a therapist.

Adam: 55:39

He's a therapist, man, like oh my God! He's a therapist. Yes, which is so sad!

Waheed: 55:48

And how old were you at the time when you told him?

Adam: 55:51

Maybe 30 years.old, something like this. I was an adult. Actually, I was like about to explode, like I was suffering from depression, consuming porn, like living a dual life. So it was. I mean, I wanted some help.

Waheed: 56:15

This was happening ever since you were a teenager, in your 20’s and leading up to your 30’s. You were dealing with all of these things, correct?

Adam: 56:24

Exactly, exactly. Then a moment came that truly changed everything. It was the suicide of Sarah Hegazi. Sarah Hegazi is a famous Egyption LGBTQ activist and socialist, and actually she committed suicide in 2020. The news devastated me, wallahi, I screamed, I cried, actually it was like maybe one of the moments in my life that I really cried that hard, and I begged Allah for answers.

Waheed: 57:16

Just to give people kind of a background story to this, because people who are not familiar with the story would be like, “Okay, so why is Adam crying over an activist who committed suicide?” I mean, of course we grieve every life that is taken, but I mean there is a background story to it. So, I remember that was back in 2020, as you said, so that was five years ago when she passed away, and it was such an uproar, because she was struggling so much, she was dealing with so many issues back in Egypt, and she was struggling with a lot of personal and familial issues. And then, at some point, she held the pride flag in a concert in Egypt, and afterwards, she was taken by the police. She was apprehended, she was imprisoned, she was tortured physically and there were reports of rape as well. Eventually she was exiled to Canada, and her family was still in Egypt, from what I recall, and she wasn't able to visit Egypt. She wasn't allowed back in the country, and I think her mother became sick and then died, and Sarah wasn't able to visit her mother back in Egypt. So she was dealing with that, and she was dealing with a lot of trauma, and a lot of depression, to the point that she gave up and she took her own life.

SubhanAllah, it really stirred a lot of emotions in us, not necessarily because we agree with her chosen lifestyle or whatever it is, but we could identify with her pain, all of us, wherever we stand on this issue, I think we could identify with her pain. We could also identify with the fact that she was struggling in silence, that she wanted to express herself, yet she was met, instead of (being met) with guidance and support and empathy, she was met with brutality — physical and sexual brutality. She wasn't able to visit her family. She was stripped away from everything that would give her support, and so she just gave up, khalas, at the end.

Sorry, I don't mean to hijack whatever you want to say, but I remember, like back when her story came out and I was reading about her, I was really moved and broken to the point that... I mean, I could see myself in her, because if things were different, I could have been her. We could, anyone of us could have been in her shoes. And I wish someone could have, maybe somehow taken her by the hand, given her love, given her affection, told her that there's another way, there is a way we could walk together to help you find your healing and your purpose and your peace, but that wasn't the case for her. 

So I completely agree with you. I mean the fact that you screamed, you cried, you were lost at that moment. I completely understand where that is coming from, subhanAllah.

Adam: 59:59

Yeah, of course, actually, you said it so well, and you said it so well even when you said that we find ourselves in her. She also wanted some answers, unfortunately.

Waheed: 1:00:14

And she didn't find those answers.

Adam: 1:00:16

Exactly, she didn't, unfortunately. Yeah, and wallahi, even now, I feel so sad just remembering her. So may she rest in peace, and may Allah show mercy on her soul, inshaAllah.

Waheed: 1:00:35

And I also remember — sorry to interrupt you — but I remember it became a matter of debate. Like people were, Muslims were like, “Oh, good riddance”, not all Muslims but like some ultra-conservative Muslims were like, “Oh, good riddance, we got rid of her!” And the liberal kind of left-leaning (people) were like, “Oh, look at them. It's a huge loss for us and all.” And we're like caught in between, and we're like how do you spit on someone's grave? This is not Islamic manners. This is not what the Prophet (PBUH) would have done. It’s about really understanding the person, understanding the pain. Showing empathy and compassion. It doesn't mean you agree with the lifestyle or the person's choices, but at least there is respect, particularly respect for the dead. She's gone, she's with Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala. He is the Most Merciful. He will deal with her. You have no right to say this or say that, and again, I mean that's my personal opinion. But there was a lot of chaos on the Internet back then, and it was very, very shameful, the things that were said about her from all sorts of people, but, seeing this from some Muslims, unfortunately, added fuel to the fire.

Adam: 1:01:46

Exactly, Waheed. Yes, I remember that I felt like I'm lost in between those two parties. It was so confusing. Also, like you said, her death became a heated topic everywhere in the country. Even in my own home. I remember that, my parents, I remember their faces, like when we started to speak about this, their faces twisted in disgust, and actually it really triggered me, because actually we were finding ourselves in her. But of course, like I wasn't feeling that I belong to this LGBTQ lobby, but at the same time, I was (missing) the empathy. So that was my boiling point.

So, I cried for her. I cried, and I begged Allah. You know, Waheed, I cried to a degree that I felt soreness in my body, that I'm about to die. SubhanAllah, and then Allah answered me. And let me say it, let me put it this way, in the wake of Sarah’s death, I stumbled upon a very beautiful video of Fadel Solaiman. I don't know if you know him. I remember that I told you about him. He's like — yeah, actually, you interviewed him, I remember, right?

Waheed: 1:03:20

No, I didn't — we had him on Straight Struggle. So, Sh. Fadel Solaiman , we send him (kind) regards, a big shout out to Sh. Fadel, mashaAllah. We actually had him on Straight Struggle. He was active for some time, and we had him over for a Q&A discussion session, and he always talks about the group, and he's quite an advocate for the voices of Muslims who experience same-sex attractions and want to stay true to Allah and Islam.

Adam: 1:03:48

Exactly, yeah, and actually, he was an engineer in the past, and then he decided to dedicate (and move) his life in this direction. So, subhanAllah, yeah, so I stumbled upon this video, and actually, this video was beautiful. Why? Because he differentiated between experiencing the attraction and choosing to act on it. And this was the first time in my life to feel this difference, that they are not the same, it was like the “Aha!” moment, like a sudden rush of clarity, subhanAllah. Also, he mentioned the Straight Struggle group in the video, and through this, and through his content, I discovered Ali Jaafery, the founder of Strong Support, and, subhanAllah, things gradually started to unfold somehow and get better, subhanAllah.

Waheed: 1:04:57

Like one resource that gave you access to so many other resources. By the way, I'm going to add, inshaAllah, in the episode show notes the video that you mentioned of Sh. Fadel. So it is in Arabic, but for people who are interested, inshaAllah, I will add a link to that video.

Adam: 1:05:14

Yeah, actually, speaking of links, Waheed, actually now I'm doing my best to know Allah better, alhamdulillah, so the first thing we should learn is the Names of Allah, how to ponder upon them. So, Fadel Solaiman has a very, very beautiful list of those episodes, each of which describes and explains the meaning of one of Allah's Names.

Waheed: 1:05:46

Yeah, so inshaAllah, yes, for sure, we will add a link in the show notes with regards to Sh. Fadel’s series on Allah's Divine Names.

Adam: 1:05:56

And, for the first time, I understood that I wasn't born like this, that I was going through an internal jihad, i.e., a struggle with (an expected) reward, inshaAllah. I also learned that I'm not alone in this, and there are others like me fighting the same battle. And then I started my healing journey, alhamdulillah. Also, from this moment, like, alhamdulillah, my relationship with Allah transformed. I was so keen to know Allah more, and to ponder in Quran more. Subhan Allah, again, to understand His Divine Names and Attributes. And also I finally saw that I didn't belong to (i.e., wasn’t like) the people of Prophet Lut (AS). Actually, from this point on, I really unsubscribed from all porn sites, alhamdulillah. And yes, I began my healing journey. Healing actually was in layers, like really layers, like it was like a very challenging journey, like learning about myself, my inner child, Allah's mercy. 

The more I learned about myself, the more anger I felt toward my parents. Actually like yes more anger toward my parents, cycling through phases of rage, hatred and eventually like near forgiveness, inshaAllah, I mean, I'm on it. Alhamdulillah. And in 2021, I took another brave step and I joined my first circle on Strong Support. And again, this is the second time in my life, I came out and I shared my SSA. Actually I forgot something that even before, like in Straight Struggle, I wrote a long post on Discord, like coming out., it was the first time I spoke about my SSA that way.

Waheed: 1:08:24

And in comparison to the therapist, who was like “Oh, astaghfirullah! You should read Qur’an more!” How did it feel like when you told your story and people were embracing and accepting you?

Adam: 1:08:32

Oh, man, it was like how it feels with the last episode of any TV show, like everything is happy, I felt really so happy, like oh my God, subhanAllah, what's happening? People understand me, people are sending me hugs, so, actually, people, they gave me the sense that they see me strong, like they are proud of me, which is very interesting, because back at this moment, I was only feeling shame that I'm so disgusting. Like actually, now I'm talking with you Waheed, believe me, back at this moment, I didn't dare to say a single word about all of this, a single word.

Waheed: 1:09:20

Which is understandable. I mean the amount of shame that you had surrounding this and the fear and the issues you were going through, it's understandable that it takes time for people to become more comfortable in sharing this, and it gets easier with time. It's a journey, as you said, and you go about the healing process in layers and layers, and you discover so many things about yourself. Now look at how far you've come. You are sharing your story with the world! So may Allah bless you.

Adam: 1:09:53

Thank you brother. After this moment, everything, alhamdulillah, started to change. I even actually in my circle, Strong Support circle. I even, like I made friends, and I found brothers who understood me, and I even traveled abroad to meet one of them who became a dear friend of mine, and actually he introduced me to more and more brothers and friends. SubhanAllah, yeah, so, wallahi, we should keep asking Allah, I say alhamdulillah. And, after years of loneliness, Allah sent me this gift, like a safe space to speak openly. It feels like this is where I finally belong.

Waheed: 1:10:41

It's very beautiful. It's very beautiful. And you reminded me of something, I was talking to a friend recently and he mentioned “Allah is generous beyond our comprehension. We cannot even imagine his generosity.” So don't limit yourself thinking that you want to kind of limit your da'as. Ask him for anything. Just aim high as much as you can — for the things that you are, that you want, that you're looking for, that are going to support you, the things that you don't even know about. Just ask him for things and just be astonished by his generosity, because he will give you more than you could have ever imagined. SubhanAllah, and you cried and you begged and you, subhan Allah, it's just a moment of, you stumbled upon a video and it opened up the door to so many other things in your life and, mashAllah, you've come a very long way, so alhamdulillah.

Adam: 1:11:31

Thank you. Also, Waheed, when we make dua, we should also like believe that, inshallah, Allah will listen to us, this is important as well.

Waheed: 1:11:44

Absolutely, absolutely. This is very important as well, absolutely no doubt that He will. But of course, when does He answer? He answers according to His timeline, not according to our own timeline. Sometimes we get very hasty and we're like, “Oh, why isn't He answering?” It's according to Him, at the right time, inshAllah, He will.

Adam: 1:11:57

Also, it is according to our khair, our khair, like what is best for us. Sometimes we make dua to Allah, but Allah wants the best for us, so maybe something else happened, but actually it's way better.

Waheed: 1:12:10

Yes, absolutely. So, it's all khair at the end, whatever it is, Alllah chooses what is best, alhamdulillah.

Waheed: 1:12:28

All right, so let's go into the healing journey. So, we are going to get into a very juicy part of the episode, which I'm very excited for everyone to hear. There are so many beautiful gems in this part inshaAllah, towards the end of the episode. So this is like the second half of it, and we are going to be talking about the healing path. So how did you embark on this healing path? What resources did you stumble upon? What you have learned? How far you have come? The floor is yours. Please, go ahead. 

Adam: 1:12:54

Yeah, sure, right of course. Yeah, also, let me repeat something. I mentioned that, again. First thing I did, I joined straight struggle, this Discord server and also I shared with people, I came out to them, and I shared everything. And then, to be honest, I stumbled upon the podcast A Way Beyond the Rainbow. Believe me, I mean okay, like I don't know what to say, but believe me, it was like a being changer in my journey. Thank you so much for this. May Allah give you thawab (reward) for this. Believe me, I listened to all of the episodes, and they changed everything as well.

Waheed: 1:13:00

Alhamdulillah, I am glad to hear that. This is all from Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala, I didn't do anything, so alhamdulillah.

Adam: 1:13:40

Alhamdulillah. And yes, along the way, actually I've read a few books recommended even by you, in the podcast, and by the guys in Discord. I mean one of those books actually, let me, yeah, as far as I remember, like Shame and Attachment Loss by Joseph Nicolosi. Also three books of Richard Cohen, Coming Out Straight, Being Gay: Nature or Nurture, and Healing Humanity: Time, Touch & Talk. I also read How to Do the Work by Nicole LePera, and of course, the beautiful book of Secrets of Divine Love. Somehow this book also contributed to my spiritual journey as well.

Waheed: 1:14:36

We always talk about that with a lot of people, whenever I hear someone who's struggling with his spirituality, or like has a lot of God wounds and grew up in an environment where God was kind of.. It was like a negative image of Allah SWT, I'm like, okay, we need to read this book. This really is a good reorientation of everything, so subhanAllah. I am glad you read it.

Adam: 1:15:09

Believe me. I even recommended this to my sister. My sister was like, “Oh my God, this is like a gem. How did you find this book?” And I was like “Oh my God!” And I told her that  a very dear, close friend of mine shared this with me. So, yeah, it's a very, very beautiful book, and it has nothing to do with SSA, yet it really helps in the spiritual journey

Waheed: 1:15:32

Yes it's about the spiritual journey of Islam and what islam is about, what is Iman, our relationship with Allah. It's purely spiritual, from an Islamic mindset, and it's very healing and very uplifting. So I will add a link to all of these books they've mentioned in the episode show notes for people to check out.

Adam: 1:15:46

Yeah, thank you, Waheed, actually, okay, let me also, because of when you said God wounds. Actually, I would like also to add something here. Maybe I didn't share this with you before. Believe me, Waheed, like actually recently, maybe three months ago, I discovered that I suffer from something very interesting, that I was spiritually transferring mom to Allah, subhanAllah, may Allah forgive me saying this.

Waheed: 1:16:09

But it is subconscious. I mean, you didn't choose it, but it just happened.

Adam: 1:16:13

Exactly, Waheed, exactly. Sometimes I feel like Allah will change. Like okay, maybe Allah now sent me a lot of blessings, but if I slip or if I make any mistake, Allah will punish me really so bad, like instantly, because this how my mom was. It's very, subhanAllah, very confusing, but it's a negative thought, it's a false belief. I know this. But this book actually helps in this, like we start to learn how to know Allah. It is a very beautiful book.

Waheed: 1:16:54

You start to know Allah for who He is, not based on the projection that you have of Him, which is a big difference.

Adam: 1:17:06

Exactly, a very big difference. So, yes, also at the same time of reading those books, and joining this Straight Struggle Discord server, at the same time, I joined Strong Support and also it was a very huge step in my healing journey, and actually I have been there actually for years. Yes, I took a break like a year or something, but actually till this moment, like I'm attending my weekly circle. What else? I attended JiM (Journey into Manhood) this year as well. It added a lot to my healing journey. So, yes, that's it, and actually also I can tell you more about what I learned through those healing milestones this year.

Waheed: 1:17:58

Yes, yes, please, you can tell us everything that you've written that you want to talk about. The floor is yours.

Adam: 1:18:03

Yeah, so, first thing’s first, like, in A Way Beyond the Rainbow podcast, I learned really many things, many, many things, and actually it was a portal to all of my understanding. I learned about the genesis of SSA. and actually I played those two episodes like many, many times, like many times, believe me.

Waheed: 1:18:25

Wow! These are very difficult episodes, by the way, so the fact that you played them multiple times, I'm like wow, this guy is very dedicated, mashaAllah!

Adam: 1:18:38

They are very insightful, and actually it helps you somehow, to do the clearing. This clearing, like when you see a man who's attractive to you, when I listen to those episodes, somehow it helps you like somehow understand. “Oh yes, it makes sense. Oh, yes, it makes sense.” And also, doing the work like somehow has to do with repetition, like, because we are building neural network in our minds. So that's why I keep doing this and actually it's very, very helpful.

Also I learned about the difference between pre-gender and post gender homosexuality. Also through those episodes, if I remember well, also they made me also read again the book I mentioned earlier, Shame and Attachment Loss. It was one of the most important discoveries. I felt like I belonged and like almost perfectly fit in this segment Nicolosi called post-gender homosexual. I'm saying perfectly fit, almost perfectly fit, because also I learned that sometimes it's beyond black and white, sometimes it's like gray, these shades of gray, right so, but maybe 90% I belong to this post-gender homosexual group. Also Nicolosi mentioned that about 20% of his client population also belong to this.

Waheed: 1:20:16

But maybe you can, I mean, we've talked about this in A Way Beyond the Rainbow, but can you summarize what this group is, just for the people who are listening who are not familiar with this kind of terminology.

Adam: 1:20:23

Yes, of course, I will do it briefly. He mentioned that when there's no real deep grievance against the father, yet the man typically sees the father as weak for lacking the salience to defend him against whom? Like an abusive, disorganizing, crazy mother. And actually that was my case, Waheed, that the father was good enough for attachment but failed somehow to rescue the son during the latency phase from repeated trauma. And actually I feel like this resonates with me like 100%

Waheed: 1:20:58

So, in other words, I mean the idea — just to kind of break down these definitions for the listeners — that basically, growing up, in that period of when you needed to attach to your father, he was safe enough or good enough to attach to him, because boys need to attach to their father figure, but he was not strong enough because he wasn't able to rescue you from whatever abuse that was going on. And in particular, in your case, it was your mother. So, there was an improper attachment to the father figure growing up, yeah.

Adam: 1:21:36

Exactly, Waheed, yes. And also he mentioned that the man feels attraction toward men who look gentle, boyish, and cute, men who represent his own lost, innocent, younger self. So actually, again, it resonates with me, if you remember, like I'm not attracted to this stereotypical, classic porn figures or the like. That's why I, when I was listening to the episode, I was like “Oh my God, I have to read this book, because finally, a lead, a clue!!” Also, during A Way Beyond the Rainbow, you touched upon Richard Cohen, and you even interviewed him, right?

Waheed: 1:22:24

Correct, in episode 12.

Adam: 1:22:28

Yeah, exactly, it was very beneficial as well. Also, of course, like he, there are many details like this four-stage model, but also something very important he said that really, really clicked with me. He said that he believes that most men who suffer from SSA, they are latently heterosexual, but they are stuck in an early stage of psychosexual development. So, actually, somehow again I feel like, “Oh my God, actually it has to do with my case as well.” Because, in other words, I really didn't develop the proper OSA like other men, for reasons and blockers, and again, OSA and SSA, they are not mutually exclusive. So somehow there were blockers, unfortunately, some blockers in my way that prevented me from developing such attraction toward girls. Actually, this is very important, because in my healing journey, now I know that I have to work on myself to develop OSA, I have to unlearn some false beliefs that all girls are like my mom, or maybe like dating girls is like betraying my mom. It's another false belief.

Waheed: 1:23:48

Correct, because you were too attached to the mother figure — the idea of separating from her feels like abandonment or like you're betraying her, even though it doesn't make sense rationally, but this is how you felt because you were too emotionally attached.

Adam: 1:24:04

Yeah, exactly, yeah, 100% yes. And also I learned about the inner child work and reparenting. I learned about codependency, which is a very, very useful topic, very important also because we are very prone to fall in this. Also, I learned about one of your very special episodes that you touched upon how women and men are different in terms of orgasm and the way that they channel the sexual energy. Actually, I really enjoyed this content, because I didn't have such education and no one educated me in this regard as well.

Waheed: 1:24:50

That was the episode with the sex therapist, Dr Rana Khaled. She was talking about these things. I wouldn't talk about these things, but she did! 

Adam: 1:24:57

It’s amazing, actually, it's amazing, because it's very important to know and be educated in this regard. Yes, also, I learned about JiM (Journey into Manhood) from your podcast as well. Also, the bonus episodes about meditation, mentioning Allah's Names. Man, like believe me, till this moment, it's part of my morning routine, I meditate mentioning Allah's Names, like put my hands on my heart. It's very helpful and, believe me, believe me, it changed how... Because I never ever correlated meditation with Islam. Somehow, actually, it changed it.

And believe me, Waheed, that even now I'm reading another book it's called Breaking the Habit of Yourself. Actually, I didn't share this with you, I can also share the link with you. It's a very, very good book, but again, the guy is not Muslim. The ideas revole around like asking Allah, making dua and mentioning Allah's Names and somehow feel it in your heart, and feel relaxed that you are with Allah, feel relaxed, when you mention each Name, you just feel this attribute of peace the mercy. It's very, very beautiful. So actually, yeah, it has nothing to do with SSA, but I really recommend doing this practice, like by mentioning Allah's Names during meditation. It's a game changer.

Waheed: 1:26:38

Wonderful! Thanks for sharing.

Adam: 1:26:41

Of course! Yeah, and, in my weekly circle, in Strong Support, actually, I learned many things as well. I learned a very interesting fact that attractions to men differ according to many factors. Actually, one of them is age. Maybe the attraction toward an older man is somehow different than attraction toward (one of the) same age or younger ones. Sometimes attraction toward an older man is like the need for this parent figure, and sometimes to this same age, maybe it's like erotic jealousy, or maybe toward the younger ones, it's like searching for your lost younger self. So it's a very interesting aspect I didn't know about, and I learned it in one of the circles as well. Actually also not to mention that in the circle, we are holding a parallel book club as well, and it's very, very useful. So we discuss, yeah, we read the book, we discuss it together. So it's very interesting.

But what else? Yeah, also I learned about a very powerful exercise to do when I feel the attraction. Like it's actually it's an exercise, it's listed in the Brothers Road website. But actually it's very interesting because you tell the story of yourself. The first thing you do, like you tell the stories about the man you are telling yourself, and then you tell the stories you're telling yourself. It's somehow like doing this clearing, clearance work. It's very interesting.

Waheed: 1:28:24

I will add a link to this exercise as well, so that people can access that inshaAllah. So basically the idea is where you kind of understand the stories that you're telling yourself about the other man, and then you understand the stories that are you're telling yourself about yourself, so kind of comparing yourself with that man and what that tells you about yourself.

Adam: 1:28:45

Exactly yeah, and you ask yourself, like what are your real needs, and then what do you need to surrender? Actually, it's very good because it puts your thoughts in order somehow. Yes, also, I learned that SSA has  complicated layers, so it's not like one linear dimension, believe me, it's like multiple dimensions. So this is also a thing that I learned in the circle. Again, I learned about, the false beliefs. Okay, speaking about myself, I have like a long list of false beliefs, believe me now, even like, I wrote them down in a list, and I keep reading them, like one false sentence and one true sentence. So that it's very interesting that we have to unlearn those false beliefs, and, of course, like I mentioned before that false beliefs regarding how I see Allah and so on.

Also, I learned how to accept my SSA as well, and which is this is not that easy part, but actually, alhamdulillah, I mean it's getting better. And yeah, also, I learned the difference between like finding a coach or finding a therapist, because like a coach somehow is like guidance for the present and the future, and therapists somehow like to analyze the past and will help you navigate the past.

Waheed: 1:30:18

And it's important to understand the difference, because a therapist is not a coach and a coach is not necessarily a therapist.

Adam: 1:30:24

Yes. Also, like I told you, I learned about Sigmund Freud and I kept reading about him, and also that was one of the findings through the circles as well, and yeah, and then, I went to JiM (Journey into Manhood). Yes, I was lucky, alhamdulillah, that I attended one of those weekends, amazing weekends, and there, I really learned a lot of things. First things first, I learned that I don't want to have sex with men. Believe me, this is like the first thing I learned. I learned that I just want to bond with men. I want this healthy, golden fatherly hug. And also it was like, to me, it was a unique experience, because it was the first time in my life to be surrounded by men physically, like in person, I mean not remote, because the weekly circle we hold it remote, but this was the first time in my life to be surrounded in person by men who share the same struggle with me. And it was a game changing experience. And at this moment, I learned that, wallahi, it is not about sex, it's about connection, healthy hugs, healthy bonding.

I learned that forgiveness is key to moving forward. I learned about emotions and counter emotions, and this is very important, because I learned more about my shame and my anxiety and how they played a huge role in my SSA. And also I made new friends, golden friends as well and, subhanAllah, alhamdulillah, I feel very deeply connected with them.

Also, there I set my goals. Actually, like I had this sense of clarity to be able to set my goals. So one of them is to deattach myself from my mom; this weaning process. So actually, emotionally, I learned that I have to do it and, alhamdulillah, actually it's made a difference in the healing journey and I'm on it. Also, there, I learned how to and when to share about my SSA. I didn't share my SSA with my family, yet I spoke with my mom about like part of it, like this fear of intimacy with girls. I will talk about this later, Waheed. In JiM, I learned how to deattach myself, how to and when to share and speak with our parents — this is a very good point. I also learned how to deeply analyze my attraction toward men and how to differentiate between women in general and my mom. This is something not easy for me.

One of the lessons I learned is that my goal shouldn't be getting rid off SSA, this is very important. Rather, I should focus on self-growth, to become more aware, gaining more control over my emotions and, believe me, gradually, SSA will decrease somehow.

Waheed: 1:34:12

Or, at least, you will be able to manage it, and it doesn't really control your life, so to speak.

Adam: 1:34:17

Exactly, exactly, 100%. So, yes, something else I would like to add, that one of the activities that I considered like one of the important milestones in my healing journey is Voices from Beyond the Rainbow, actually, this podcast itself. Believe me, somehow, like, even while talking to you, sharing stuff, I keep discovering things about myself. So yeah, thank you so much Waheed for this as well!

Waheed: 1:34:48

Yeah of course! I mean, my pleasure, and mashaAllah, I mean you're sharing all of these wonderful lessons with us, so we're the ones who are supposed to thank you. So jazak Allah khair. This is absolutely incredible, but I'm glad that you also mentioned the fact that it was a good exercise for you, because you went back and you were kind of sharing your entire story and then deriving the lessons and the gems, kind of uncovering those memories and then putting them in their right place, and then understanding where they came from, and how you relate to them, and how far you have come and what you have learned on this journey. I think it's a very good exercise for all of us to actually engage in, to see, subhanAllah, the blessings of Allah, and how far we have come and what you have learned on this journey, and how far we have come, with all of the pain and the trials and the tribulations that we've been through, there's a lot of good that comes out of it, alhamdulillah. So thanks for sharing!

Adam: 1:35:35

Thank you, and thanks to Allah, of course! Alhamdulillah.

Waheed: 1:35:51

These are wonderful gems that you have shared with us, mashaAllah. I mean a lot of things that you have covered over the past couple of years. So now, when you look back and you can put together, as you mentioned, the puzzle pieces, what did you learn about yourself when it comes to your own same-sex attractions, the reasons for them? I mean, you've touched upon a lot of them, but how did that picture become clearer to you? And also, when it comes to your opposite-sex attractions, what have you learned and what can you share with us?

Adam: 1:36:28

Yes, it's a very good question, I have to admit, and also, to be honest, it was never, ever, simple for me. Again, it was like a puzzle, like a puzzle inside of me. But, wallahi, alhamdulillah, thanks to Allah, I'm so grateful that, alhamdulillah, I managed to solve this puzzle. Like, I always had those questions like why this man and not this man? Why I'm drawn to this certain body type or energies and not others? And again, okay, before, like telling you the solution of the puzzle, again, wallahi, this kind of question, like why this man and not this man, actually, I find it a clue, and also I encourage the audience to think of it this way. It's like a clue to protect us from what they promote in the LGBTQ lobby, because they always promote that it's all about love. No, actually, like in my case at least, like being attracted to certain body types or certain kind of men. Obviously, it tells you that it has to do with some deep trauma and wounds. So it's not only about, like, leading the gay life, it's not only about love. No, actually, it's something that has to be healed, right? So, yeah, I just wanted to mention this.

So, yes, back to your question, Waheed, back to this puzzle. Why this man and not this man, and what are the reasons behind my SSA and lack of OSA? Actually, I would say that, basically, like I said before, first things first is, of course, gender inferiority, and this is actually highlighted by Richard Cohen. Cohen said that it's all about gender inferiority, and actually I agree with him. Wven when I look back, Waheed, I ask myself like, how did I start watching porn? Like I told you in the beginning, again, I was like I wasn't enjoying the act or the intercourse itself, I was searching for naked men, naked chubby men. I dont’ want to repeat my speech, but again, I would like to reuse it here again, because it really has to do with answering the question. So it all started with gender inferiority, and the puzzle solved that the man that I feel attracted to, there's like a triangle of fusion., this man has a piece of my mom, a piece of my younger/llost self, and a piece of the ideal self, or the father that I really wanted to have.

So if those three elements I find them in one man, then the attraction happens. But, if one of those triangle sides is missing, actually, somehow the attraction is not that strong. My findings, they have a lot to do with Cohen, Nicolosi, and Freud, like those three main, because somehow I kept collecting those puzzle pieces from them, and then Freud added the missing puzzle piece. The missing puzzle piece, okay. And, yes, I know that there's a lot of controversy around him, so we have to be careful, like what to read or what to not, but again, the concepts he shared actually it's very, very useful, at least to read, to know about, because it really can help us navigate through our SSA, and actually a lot of them clicked with me and cracked the code of my puzzle. What made me so sure that, subhanAllah, this really is cracking the code of my puzzle, that I have some clues and some leads happened during the past. 

Let me tell you one of the things that wallahi actually I even discovered that on purpose. I made myself forget this, because it was so shaming, but when I was reading Freud's research, somehow I remembered this. Okay once I had a wet dream about my mom. It's not easy to say this, but this is a very interesting fact that I had this when I was younger, and this kid felt so ashamed of himself to a degree that he buried this deep, really deep, and he actually made himself forget about it. Actually, I really forgot until I started reading Freud's work. That's why, actually, like some similar clues, vivid memories and leads made me sure that, yes, I agree, I really resonate with what he's saying, right? So, yes, again, I will explain more about this triangle of fusion, like a piece of my mom, a piece of my younger self, a piece of my ideal self in the man.

Okay, so it all started, Waheed, with what Freud calls the Oedipus Complex. So actually, he said that it's like a phase in early childhood, like when a boy feels like a deep, unconscious desire for his mother and competition with his dad, right? So normally, like in the normal cases, children resolve this phase and they grow beyond it. But in my case, again, I think I got stuck, I didn't resolve this Oedipus Complex. And, by the way, Oedipus is a Greek name, in Greek mythology, maybe I'm mistaken, in Greek mythology, it's the name of a guy who killed his father for the sake of his mom, something like this. Of course, in psychology, it's not like this. Somehow it's like being emotionally married to your mom. But of course he used this name because it relates somehow. So yes, somehow, I didn't resolve this Oedipus Complex. I was emotionally married to my mom.

Waheed: 1:43:26

And, of course, it's necessary here to highlight, because there's a lot of controversy regarding the Oedipus Complex. It is necessary for people who are listening to this to realize that it doesn't necessarily apply to everyone, and of course, this part has been debunked or it's been outdated, in a lot of modern psychology textbooks, it's considered like that. But what's necessary to highlight is that, in your case, you found that it applies to you, and that's fair enough, so that must be mentioned.

Adam: 1:43:53

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah, it felt like it resonted with me, because, somehow, I remember this dream, I remember this attachment, and because I didn't resolve this Oedipus Complex and this state of being emotionally married to my mom, somehow it blocked, like I said earlier, there were blockers for me not to develop OSA, so this was the blocker. Somehow just looking at girls or dating them, somehow it's like betraying her, it's like something big.

Also, Waheed, this is not only this, because let's not forget that my mom, like she had emotionally blackmailed me for years, she punished me, she used to beat me. So also that left like me with a deep fear of intimacy with women as well. Yeah, so actually, if I am answering your question, it's not only about, like, the lack of OSA, like, let me put it this way, it's like there are blockers that prevented me from developing OSA. Like I don't want to betray mom, like I fear them, or I had this fear of intimacy. Also, I feel angry at them, because of what happened, somehow I feel like they will.. Women I mean the women will hurt me, will hurt my sister, because this is how it happened when I was a kid. Again, it's a false belief. I'm sure that women are different, not all of them are like that. This is what I'm doing now. This is the work I'm on, inshaAllah.

Also, something else contributed to this lack of OSA, Waheed, that it's not only fear of intimacy. Somehow I developed this sense of this glorifying women. It's something in our culture, in the Middle East, of course mixed with this me not having resolved this Oedipus complex, somehow this glorification of women pushed me to continue watching gay porn, because watching naked women felt forbidden, somehow really forbidden. Yet watching men, somehow it's like okay, it's not that (much of a) sin, but watching women, it's really forbidden, it's like a catastrophe, I'm doing something really forbidden. So, yeah, that's why this Oedipus Complex really resonated with me.

Also, something else Freud mentioned that resonated was what I mentioned earlier and also what you mentioned, Waheed, about this inward libido. Let me highlight that more. He said that, in some traumatic cases, the kids, they develop libido, but this libido turns inward, when this Oeidpus Complex is not resolved. And that was me actually, this admiration this kid develops to his body, it has to do with this inward libido.

Waheed: 1:47:05

So basically, you're directing your sexual attention to yourself.

Adam: 1:47:08

Exactly. Also, let me mention that my mom was pretty, I admit, and also I had inherited from her like some body traits, like maybe the softness I had when I was a kid, it was from her, this curvy, round body. So, somehow, according to Freud , and actually not only according to Freud, according to what I really felt, that somehow myself, my body reminded me of her, but of course she was forbidden, and also, at the same time, I wasn't only her, I also embodied the masculinity or the masculine features as well. So he says, and this is how I really felt, that this kid found like his body like a safe refuge. A safe refuge from his crazy mom, his shaming mom, his shaming peers. And actually, no one admired him. So he was the one who worked on it. He decided to be the one who admires it, but actually he did it in like a secret practice. I remember that, after a hectic day, after my dad and my mom were fighting, some hectic stuff at school, I come back home and I remember as a kid like I get naked and get myself under the blanket and just enjoy myself. So when Freud said it's a safe refuge, I was like, “Oh my God! Something really resonates with me here!” 

And guess what, Waheed? At the same time, I was ashamed of myself. So it's not only admiration, it's admiration but at the same time shame. And I was doing my best to hide this soft, tender part of me when I was dealing with the external world. I was pretending so hard, I was doing my best to look like a macho man, even now. Again, I didn't share this with you, but while we are talking, I remembered one of the memories. I remember that one day at the school, like I was in the third grade or something, maybe I forgot, my friend took a pen from me. After school, I went to his house, I knocked his door so bad, as if I'm breaking into his house, as if I'm the police. And then his mom was like, “What are you doing? What do you want?” And I told her I want my pen. It's so funny, however, that was against my nature, because I was a quiet boy, but I was so scared to return home to my mom, because she always accused my dad of being weak, maybe I inherited this weakness, but I should not show it to my mom not to be killed.

And also I pretended that I'm not that soft boy, I pretended that I'm a macho man. I really wasn't myself. Yeah, so that's what Freud might call a “narcissistic injury.” It's like alternating between shame and admiration or narcissism. It's very interesting how I resonate with this, on the one hand, like this boy feels so ashamed of his softness, and on the other hand, he feels proud and admires it secretly. And also, again, like I told you, this boy kept wondering like, “Am I a girl? No, I'm not a girl. Actually, I embody the masculine features as well, but at the same time I don't feel like a man.” The absence of my dad played this role. Because, here, no one told me “Hey, you are okay.” Here, no one told me, “No, you are just a man, like equal to men, but maybe you are different in some regards” and that's it. So this boy created this secret gender, like a gender where men are allowed to be curvy, soft, and quiet and, at the same time, masculine and strong. 

And this secret gender became my safe space, a place to hide from my mom, from my bullies, from the world, it's like a refuge. And guess what, Waheed? Any man belongs to this secret gender I feel attracted to. So this solves the puzzle. So those men I used to watch in porn, those men who embody the softness, they are stocky, curvy, but at the same time they are more masculine also. Yeah, something I forgot to add here. I know that I'm talking so fast in this regards, but I just wanted to encapsulate all of my findings.

Waheed: 1:52:20

It's all clear, by the way, no problem!

Adam: 1:52:24

Perfect! Thank you for reassuring me. So something else I wanted to add regarding this secret gender that became my safe place. With time, Waheed, this secret gender evolved into an idealized self. I mean, this libido I developed from my body actually changed, like somehow, it went outwards. I was looking for a man actually who was like even more ideal. Ideal actually in both directions, like masculinity and the same time like tenderness. So, for example, like I told you, my bullies, those peers in the school, they used to mock me of my “moobs.” For example, like, if a man is very curvy, soft, at the same time masculine, like has muscular upper chest, hairy upper chest, actually I feel so attracted, because actually it makes sense, like it's more of an idealized self, this man that I feel attracted to. 

Back to the first thing I said in this answering your question, he has a piece of my mom, he has a piece of my lost self, and a piece of the idealized self, like a triangle of fusion. And guess what, Waheed? Like this attraction, after doing this work, actually I discovered that it's not about sexual attraction. It's about, first of all, like, yes, because this guy belongs to this secret gender, this guy is safe. I want to belong to him. So this is one of the things that I feel, like I feel safety around him. I feel like he's anxiety reducing. Somehow, I feel like jealous of him, because he's competing with me in masculinity and in femininity as well, in this softness. Also, I feel curious, I feel like I want to bond with him, I want to speak with him. Actually, I feel I want him to protect me from my mom. I want to hug him, because I wanted really to hug my dad, I wanted this male hug. So actually it's a mix of emotions. Believe me, those days after doing this work, alhamdulillah, this work made SSA decrease, really. So when I see a man belongs to this equation, I feel like this guy is like a missing family member, I really want to hug him, that's it. Like I just want to tell him, “Where have you been? I really missed you!” Haha! It's so funny, but this is how I feel now. That's it, so, subhanAllah, it all has to do with mom, myself, and my ideal father.

Waheed: 1:55:24

Adam, mashaAllah, I mean, you've shared with us so many beautiful insights, and there's a lot for us to kind of think about, and I'm sure that a lot of the things you've mentioned kind of resonates with so many different people who are listening to the podcast. And, mashaAllah, you've been working on yourself and kind of seeking the support that you need and uncovering a lot of things and doing the healing work, and it is a journey and it can get very difficult and challenging, but it is rewarding, alhamdulillah. So if I were to ask you right now, as Adam, where are you right now in terms of your emotional growth, mental, spiritual healing? Where are you, and where do you hope to be in the future?

Adam: 1:56:06

Yeah, this is the hardest question ever! Alhamdulillah, I feel like I'm in a better place, alhamdulillah, way, way better, and I feel like I understand my SSA. Actually I admit that it's getting decreased in a good way, alhamdulillah, thanks to Allah, and actually sometimes I spend days, sometimes I believe it's really gone. So it's progress, wallahi. Actually, this work I mentioned, I have like a cheat sheet,  I have it on my phone, because if I feel the attraction, I just read some keywords, like this is what I learned, why this man, etc. Suddenly, subhanAllah, the attraction disappears.

And also, this is something for the audience as well, it's not only about cracking the code or solving the puzzle, it's also about reparenting. It's, again, thanks to Allah, I mean, I did nothing. Allah showed me the way. It's not enough to learn about the genesis or the roots of our SSA, no, actually, now there is like a wounded kid, younger self, inside of us, and we have to do the reparenting, like, for example, yes, like I told you in my story, Waheed, that's okay, I didn't, I was confused, like, am I a girl? No, I'm not a girl, I'm sure, but why? I don't belong to the (world of) men. So, here, I go back to the time during the reparenting work and reassure my inner child and I tell him “Hey, you are a man. You are the beautiful creation of Allah!” So I do this during some meditation, re-parenting work also. Okay, don't laugh at me, but sometimes I hug that pillow and really I feel like I'm hugging myself. And, sometimes also I write letters in my journal to myself, younger self. It helps. Why? It's like I program something in the past, but it helps, because now, right now, I feel like I'm really a man among men, and I feel equal.

And, I believe in this, we have to believe what we say, because this is how we're going to be, not to repeat our past. What I meant, Waheed, that now, really, when someone asks me, actually I don't tend to say that I'm someone with SSA actually, or someone who experiences SSA actually, subhanAllah, like, I started to feel like, “Hey, I'm a man. Actually, I didn't develop OSA, but I am about to, inshaAllah, and actually, yes, sometimes I have attractions, but they are not even sexual attractions, yes, sometimes, but not the majority of times. Actually, they are more of admiration, really, like when I see a man, it's not that I want to have sex with him, not at all, no more.”

Waheed: 1:59:21

Beautiful! And that is a huge, huge shift from a place of sexual attraction or lust to a place of just admiration and that's it, you know, alhamdulillah.

Adam: 1:59:30

Exactly! A year ago, actually, Waheed, every time I felt an attraction, I used to feel so angry at myself, like admonishing myself, like “No way!! Again?! Like, after all the work you're doing, you still have the attraction!!” Actually, no more of this. I changed this. Even if I happen to feel the attraction, I will let it flow, I will let the energy flow. It's okay, it's not a crime. Actually, it's a reminder for me to connect to my inner child, and once I connect and I put my hand on my chest and I tell him, “Hey, I feel you, you're not alone, your mom will not beat you again, no one will hurt you, no more hiding under the blanket.” So actually suddenly, subhanAllah, I feel like no, I don't feel attracted, not at all. Actually, I feel like I'm equal to this man and sometimes I feel like maybe I have more masculine traits than this man

Waheed: 2:00:35

Beautiful, beautiful!! MashaAllah, that's excellent.

Adam: 2:00:40

Yeah, but again, it's not that I'm good, it's not that I did some amazing work. No, it's because I made dua to Allah, and Allah guided me to the way, wallahi, because the key is mentioning Allah. I just ask Allah help me and Allah helps me. It's not that I read books, and those books are helping me.

Waheed: 2:01:01

Excellent reminder, jazak Allah khairan. This is absolutely important. We need to keep this right in front of our eyes, that it’s Allah who is guiding us, and He is the One protecting us and showing us the path. All praise be due to Him. And He is the One who is allowing us to fulfill that, alhamdulillah.

Adam: 2:01:27

Exactly. And regarding my OSA, I will not lie to you. It happens that, some days, I feel so attracted to women, but again, the sooner it vanishes, but I know why, because I still need work on reparenting myself. Like hey, I have to push this image of my mom that pops up when I feel attracted to a girl. Also, there's something that I learned. Okay, I know that, during those years, I didn't develop OSA, of course, so I should not compare myself with my peers who obviously have strong OSA. So what I'm asking Allah for and I'm sure that I will find a wife, and really I want to have a wife and have a family that, inshaAllah, Allah will send me a wife that really fits my case. I'm sure that I will develop attraction with her, and she will change my mind about women, because it's only a false belief. But again, I will not take the step unless I feel like I'm 100% ready, because it might not be fair for her if I still have this work to do. Of course, it depends on if I want to tell her or not, maybe if I don't want to tell her, and so actually, if my plan is not to share (about) my SSA (with her), so at least I should, at least I should be like a good husband and she doesn't feel it. I mean she, I, what is the word? Like she will take her rights like totally.

Waheed: 2:03:01

So you're basically fulfilling her rights. Yeah. It doesn't diminish your relationship in any form, and if you feel secure in that, and that you're able to provide, financially, emotionally, physically being present, and sexually and all of that, taking care of all that, then that's your prerogative, alhamdulillah.

Adam: 2:03:19

Yes and also part of my part of the journey, that I spoke with my mom, it was like a very, very critical meeting, and I didn't mention SSA, I mentioned only the fear of intimacy parts. I told my mom, “Because of what happened in the past, I'm not able to get married, I'm finding difficulty dating girls.” So, yes, so why did I say this? For many reasons actually. One of them is she is pushing so hard. Everyone is asking like, “Why are you not married?” Like, you can imagine the culture in the Middle East. Like, especially when you are not dating, actually there's no, like I don't have a history, like even I didn't even get engaged, nothing. So I wanted to mention that, at least, to know that I'm working on myself, I'm healing. So I wanted her to give me the room, and also I told her “Hey, like I really want to do this, i.e., de-attachment.” And she was shocked. And, by the way, Waheed, like my relationship with my mom till this moment is beautiful. I hug her, I kiss her, I take care of her, I help her, even financially, nothing changed. Because sometimes people go to an extreme. Like “Okay, I will cut off the relationship with my mom.” No, actually no, not at all. I'm being very nice to her, subhanAllah, because Allah ordered us in the Qur’an. And actually, no wonder why Allah stressed this in Qur’an, because, subhanAllah, it has maybe something between the lines. Maybe Allah knows that, sometimes, it's just difficult. But you have to do it.

Waheed: 2:05:00

Beautifully said, mashaAllah!

Adam: 2:05:13

So this is my state now, Waheed, but also away from this. Not to lie to you, my problem is not only SSA, because SSA came only with some anxiety. So, like I told you, I have different anxiety. For example, I have what is called joy anxiety. When I feel so happy, when I feel the joy, I feel so anxious that Allah will take everything from me. Yes, and I know this, when I do the work, thanks to Allah, of course, I knew why, because when I was a kid, my mom and my dad used to fight a lot, like I told you, and this was the default mode at house, like fighting, yelling my mom pretending that she's dying. And, of course, this kid, Imagine how he felt. So, as a protection, when he started to find that there's peace in the house, this kid, to protect himself, developed this anticipation or prediction that something will happen. Now, believe me, now, even when I'm traveling, I'm sitting by the beach on a very beautiful sunny day, and suddenly, anxiety kicks in, as if I'm gonna die, as if someone will kill me.

Waheed: 2:06:33

Something bad is going to happen, yeah.

Adam: 2:06:35

Exactly. And also this anxiety and another anxiety, I call it jinx anxiety, like sometimes when I find myself like when I say, “Alhamdulillah for my health,” suddenly I assume that Allah will take it away from me. Yes, especially health and anxiety like, oh my God, like recently, “Wow, mashaAllah, like I have been working out without any injuries” and suddenly the injury happens. I know that it has nothing to do with what I said, but it's just Shaytan making me connect the dots to reinforce my jinx anxiety. And also my mom was paranoid. My mom always urged us not to mention our blessings due to evil eye everywhere. So, I really hate this, and I really want to unlearn this and I'm on it.

Also, like I told you before, Waheed, spiritually, I transferred mom to Allah, this wrong, negative projection. Also I keep telling myself, especially when I wake up in the middle of the night, because I have also this anxiety, I just wake up in the middle of the night, like I don't know, assuming that Allah hates me, subhanAllah, astaghfirullah, but why? And then I put my hand on my chest and I tell myself “Allah loves me, Allah is the Most Merciful, He is al-Rahman, al-Raheem, Al-Wadud.” And then I feel the tranquility. And then I go back to sleep.

Waheed: 2:08:14

MashaAllah, mashaAllah! Well done! Well this shows that you're also healing, I mean, you're able to regulate that. But I think, if I may just kind of add something, the idea, what you said, when it comes to like the joy anxiety and the jinx anxiety, what you called them, that would resonate with a lot of the listeners. Because, for people who grew up in such households and they were always kind of hypervigilant and afraid that something bad is going to happen, that the moments of peace, they make us very uncomfortable, because we're like, “Oh my God, this is not going to last, something bad is about to happen! When is something bad is about to happen?” And we just kind of anticipate the bad thing that's going to happen. So, like your nervous system grew up in that kind of, fight, flight or freeze, kind of being hyper vigilant, and it's quite challenging to kind of disassociate from that state, but the idea is just to feel safe. When you surround yourself with people who make you feel safe, when you are safe in the presence of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala, you're doing the reorientation when it comes to the thoughts and feelings that you have towards Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala, just having a very good opinion of Allah. That, “You know what, no, let me sit in this discomfort of joy, because this joy is from Allahsubhanahu wa ta'ala, and it's a beautiful gift. And, yes, I know that life is full of ups and downs and the peace is going to be replaced with something else, and it's all about trials and tribulations. But whether it's good, whether it's bad, it's all good, because I'm with Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala.”

It's kind of reframing that, that “You know what, no matter what happens, it's all good, because I am stable, I feel safe with Allah, and if something ‘bad’ is going to happen, Allah will take care of it. And if the ‘good’ comes to me and I feel peaceful, this is good, because Allah will also take care of it.” And so, because I was in that position, I always kind of anticipated that something bad was going to happen, and that kind of helped me a lot. And realizing that we are all worthy of joy, it's good to feel joy, and it's good to experience that without having to always be afraid that something bad is going to happen or someone is going to take this away from us. So, just kind of, as you said, we're building new neural networks, like brain networks. This is part of the process. It does take time, but, inshaAllah, it is doable.

Adam: 2:10:39

Wow, beautifully said, wallahi. Thank you so much for this, especially when you said that we all deserve to feel joy. Yes, please keep saying this.

Waheed: 2:10:48

Yes, we all, we all do! Alhamdulillah, and Allah is the Source of all joy and beauty, and He is there for us, so we don't need to project things on Him. It's like having a bad opinion of Allah to say, “You know what, when is this bad thing gonna happen?” Or, “I don't deserve good things.” And it's like throwing away Allah's ni’ma, throwing away Allah's grace and blessings. We need to accept that and live with it. Even with whatever trials come our way, it's all good because Allah has decreed it, and we're living through it, and Allah will get us through it. That's the concept. The whole perspective.

Adam: 2:11:27

Yes, exactly, Waheed, 100%, MashaAllah. Thank you for saying this actually. Yeah, so this is my answer to the question, and actually, of course, I continue Allah's worship and maintain my spiritual path. Also, like I told you again, I'm working on something, I'm working on a new concept which is breaking the habits of myself. I love this concept, believe me, and it's the book I mentioned earlier, the author is Dr. Joe Dispenza.

Waheed: 2:12:06

Okay, yes, he's quite famous.

Adam: 2:12:08

Yes, and the concept — actually, my sister, she recommended this book to me, and actually this book changed my life somehow. It's like unprogramming the false beliefs and we have to trust — of course, he doesn't mention Allah, but he mentions that there's a Greater Mind/Ppower. But of course, like, because we are Muslims and we believe in Allah, so we apply this in Islam, which is very close. Actually, this is what Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) asked us to do when we make dua, you have to believe that Allah will listen to you. You have to change the energy, instead of waking up and saying, “Oh my God, Allah, please help me through this difficult day!” Like, why? Why did you make it a difficult day, right? So instead you wake up and say, “Allah, make it a good day!” And, inshaAllah, it will be a good day.

For example, like I'm not married, but inshaAllah, I will get married. So this is a beautiful concept, and actually I urge the audience to read this book, wallahi. Actually it's so good in many aspects. It's not about SSA, it's about unlearning our false beliefs and even asking Allah. Like you said, Waheed, Allah is the Most Generous. Actually, there's no limit. We can just dream and inshaAllah Allah will make the dream come true. So this is something that I'm working on, and actually, it is very, very useful, and it's adding so much to my healing journey.

Waheed: 2:13:50

Beautiful, beautiful, alhamdulillah. And, inshaAllah, all the resources that you mentioned, I will add them in the show notes and, please, everyone, just check out the links in the episode, and, inshaAllah, you'll find the links to all of these books and resources.

Waheed: 2:14:11

Brother Adam, I sincerely thank you for all of these beautiful gems and beautiful insights that you've shared with us. One of the last questions I wanted to ask you, what are the key messages, in addition to everything that you've shared with us, mashaAllah, what are some key messages and key takeaways that you would like to share with the audience, for them to take home with them after listening to this episode?

Adam: 2:14:36

First of all, I would like to say that I love you all.

Waheed: 21:14:39

We love you too!

Adam: 2:14:41

Yes, and also I would like to say that you're not alone in this and don't ever, ever feel ashamed of having those feelings. I have been trapped in this shame for years and, actually, my piece of advice is, no, don't feel ashamed of having those feelings, and remember that we are beautiful creations of Allah. And also a smart move that we should take into consideration, that we should be aware of, our two states. Like, we have this golden state and the shadow. So when we are in this golden state, everything is under control. But when we are in this dark place, sometimes we feel like very isolated, we are not men enough, we don't belong. So, awareness is the key to breaking free. And also, do your best to put yourself in this golden state. 

Again, I have been always telling people around me this piece of advice that, hey, be smart. Okay, there's depression and we are in jihad, right, but be smart not to slip, because you are on the verge. So be smart. How to be smart? So, actually, by doing many things, like, do journaling. Journaling is a golden practice, believe me. It's not about this psychology work, know that we have to incorporate in our daily routines. No, actually, you can accelerate your healing by being mindful of what you eat. Do exercises. Maintaining your prayer and spiritual connection to Allah. Cutting out social media. Believe me, actually it's very beneficial when we do this. Also, the brotherly connections, so those, actually, I consider them like we are being smart when we do this, not to slip in the shadow state. Because when we are in this golden state, we feel whole and connected, and it is so easy to tackle our SSA. So, yeah, this is something really I would like to tell the audience.

What else? Yeah, another thing that is kind of reframing, it's a very positive practice also, I'm doing, of course, thanks to Allah, alhamdulillah. SSA, like it comes with a hidden package. It's like a package. Yes, we struggled a lot, but at the same time, our wounds forged unique skills, like making us skilled. Like making us skilled managers, artists, learners, listeners. We have empathy. Like I told you in the beginning, we have the ability to read the room. It's something, believe me, others really might pay a lot of money to have it. It's something. So it's always good to reframe this situation, to look at the positive, okay, instead of just looking at the negative part, which is the struggle itself. 

I would also tell something that, hey, please try to solve your puzzle as well. I have my puzzle inside of me, like when I answered you, Waheed, you asked me, like how do I connect the dots? So I would really urge the audience if they didn't yet understand their SSA, so there might be a puzzle inside of you that you have to solve. This will help also understanding the SSA as well. Also, I'm sure that all of you have clues and leads, and use this to solve the puzzle.

Also, be aware of your false beliefs, because I used to suffer from those false beliefs, without knowing that they are false. Like, for example, “Allah hates me” it's a very simple false belief which is not true, which has made me suffer a lot. Like, for example, “All girls are like my mom.” It's a false belief, right, all this, even this secret gender I created. It's a false belief. Like, no, when I do the reparenting now, I say “No, there is no secret gender. Actually, you are a man.”

Also, I urge you, wallahi, to think of this concept of breaking the habit of yourselves. It's a very beneficial concept and it can be game changer for you. Something else I suffered from, take care of codependency, because along the way, the healing way, I mean, sometimes we might fall in codependency. So be aware of it, because sometimes it might block your healing. But at the same time, so, like, keep balance, because we need this connection with our brothers, I'm talking about myself, without the connections I have with my brothers, in the circle and everywhere, in the community, I wouldn't have reached to the state. The way that we tell ourselves that we need a hug and we send each other hugs, like I say “I love you in Allah.” This is very beautiful, believe me, and this compensates for what we were deprived of.

So, yes, again, also, I urge them to try the meditation you did Waheed in the podcast mentioning Allah's Names. And don't ever be fooled by the agenda of the LGBTQ. Actually, we keep finding in movies, Hollywood, Netflix... Take care, because they keep injecting, like I was watching a movie recently and then, like, between the lines, they're just reinforcing the idea, which is not true, I mean. So just take care of this, and again you will find inside yourself some evidences to prove that it's not about love, as they promote, it's not about sex, it's about some unhealed wounds, right?

Waheed: 21:21:05

The need for healthy connection with other men, that's what it is, you know.

Adam: 2:21:10

Exactly. Yeah, and also, it's not only about SSA. Again, I know I'm repeating myself, but don't be focusing only on your SSA. Invest in your career, learn new skills. Yeah, this is also important to add. Yeah, that's it, Waheed

Waheed: 2:21:28

Beautiful. Jazak Allah khair, my friend, you've been going at this for two and a half hours. May Allah bless you even more, but this has been incredible. So, jazak Allah kheir, I'm very, very happy.

Adam: 2:21:40

Thank you, thank you so much.

Waheed: 2:21:43

So the last question that I would like to ask you is something that I always ask my guests, towards the end of their episode, which is what is something that they would have wished to say to someone had they had the chance? Or what would you like to tell someone if you had the chance, potentially? So, yeah, I would like to ask you, and you said you're comfortable sharing certain things you would wish to tell. Let's start first with your mother. What is something you would have wished, or would you like to tell your mother if you had the chance?

Adam: 2:22:14

Okay, I mean, this is again one of the hardest questions. Actually, I would say, mom, I really love you so much and, I will not ever forget your voice singing into my ears, your love, your warmth. Yeah, I will never forget this. And also, I have to tell you that I'm also so angry. I feel sad, exhausted by the burdens you placed on me. Yeah, I mean my anxiety, confusion, and even my struggles with my sexuality. I mean, yeah, wallahi, I don't want to play the blame game, but, yes, I have just to take this off of my chest. Yeah, also, at the same time, you pushed me to perfection and, yeah, you shamed dad in front of us. You slapped me in the face. I just want to say that I'm working on forgiving you, and I'm asking Allah for it, and also, I will not ever, ever give up on you, and I will not ever leave you, and I will keep on loving you and will take care of you. But again, I'm not your emotional husband, I'm not your savior, I'm just your son. And I'm telling myself, in front of you, that it's okay for me to love women and it's okay for me to feel attraction toward them. It doesn't mean that I'm defiling them, it's a part of life, a part of being human. And one final thing, that Allah is not like you. Allah's love is constant, not conditional, and I'm learning to believe that slowly, inshaAllah, and yeah, so, inshaAllah, I'm starting new chapters. Please, mom, step back from my inner world and let me breathe. Yeah, let me grow. That's it.

Waheed: 2:24:25

Beautiful, beautiful. I wish I could give you a big hug right now!

Adam: 2:24:29

Thank you so much.

Waheed: 2:24:33

Because this is excellent, excellent, bravo! I'm very proud of you! MashaAllah, mashaAllah, this is amazing! What is something you wish you could have told your dad, or you wish you could tell your dad if you had the chance?

Adam: 2:24:43

Yeah, actually wallahi, now, even in my heart, I feel like I really love my dad. Yeah, I just want to say that my dad, I'm so sorry for what you have been through. I see your pain. You lived a life full of wounds, and I know that you didn't give up on us. I'm not angry at you, honestly. I'm just sad. Sad that you couldn't protect me or my sister, or us. I'm sad that you weren't able to stand between us and my mom's intensity. Yes, also, I would say, dad, I inherited your kindness and I understand what it feels like when people try to force you to be someone you're not, and actually throughout the years, I did my best to hide this part of me, but actually that wasn't correct. It's okay to be that kind. Yeah, that's it. I just needed you, I needed your hug, I needed your voice telling me that “You're a man. You're enough.” Yeah, dad, I forgive you and I love you.

Waheed: 2:26:02

Alhamdulillah. MashaAllah. Oh man, honestly, I feel, deep down, if your parents were to find out about your own journey and how far you have come and how strong and wonderful of a man you are, they would be very, very proud. So they should be proud of having a son like you, mashaAllah. May Allah bless you and preserve you. This is amazing.

Adam: 2:26:24

Thank you, Waheed! Pardon me, because really I felt like I was about to cry, wallahi.

Waheed: 2:26:31

It's okay, this is all normal. If you want to cry, go ahead and cry. This is good. This is good. Don't don't keep away the tears or try to suppress them, alhamdulillah. This is good, you should be proud. Yeah, the last thing that I wanted to ask you is, what is something you wish you could tell your younger self, the younger version of you, let's say the 10-year-old Adam, or the teenager Adam, or the young adult who's confused and dealing with a lot of shame and pain and lots of turmoil. If you were to talk to that young man, what would you tell him?

Adam: 2:27:12

Actually, this young man, I mean, he needed love, wallahi. First of all, I really love you and you deserve to be loved, and you were never, ever disgusting, and you were a boy actually trying to survive in a world that didn't hold you. And I feel your fear, I feel your anxiety, and I can actually sense and imagine how scared and panicked you felt back then. Also, I can feel your pain when your mom used to beat you, admonish you, hurt you. You're really a man. You have the man's body. Even your softness is sacred, and even your strength is not in how hard you are, but in how deeply you feel and how bravely you have endured. Yes, that's it. What else can I say? I can say also you don't have to fight anymore. I'm with you now, actually, I can protect you.

Waheed: 2:28:23

Beautiful. Brother Adam, jazak Allah kul khair, this has been a wonderful, wonderful episode. I want to sincerely thank you for all of your time, all of your preparation, your dedication, your kindness, your courage, a lot of courage, mashaAllah. May Allah bless you and increase you. I pray that Allah gives you strength, gives you tawfiq, gives you light, gives you lots of love, and surrounds you with His most beloved servants to walk with you, to help you, to support you, and to make you become the best version of the man that you are supposed to be. So may Allah bless you. I'm very proud of you, and I'm sure a lot of the listeners agree. InshaAllah, you can catch brother Adam on the Straight Struggle Discord server. Brace yourself. I'm sure a lot of brothers and sisters are going to be reaching out to you, inshaAllah, after this episode.

Adam: 2:29:16

Tthank you so much. Thank you so much for your words, I’m really hugging you, and thank you for the opportunity as well, and may Allah bless you, Waheed. Thank you so much.

Waheed: 2:29:25

And with that we come to the end of today's episode. I hope you have enjoyed it and found value in the content. I would like to kindly ask you to hit the subscribe button if you have not done so already, to make sure that you don't miss any episodes. And if you have enjoyed the podcast so far, please make sure to give us a good rating, as that helps make the podcast more visible for people. And if you or anyone would like to be a guest on the podcast, roll over the link in the episode show notes and fill out the form. And if you have any questions or comments or suggestions, feel free to email me anytime on voicesfrombeyondtherainbow@proton.me. Talk to you in the next episode, inshaAllah. This has been Waheed Jensen in Voices from Beyond the Rainbow. Assalamu alaikom warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.